Finally the Lyon&Viggy post I promised weeks ago ;P

[scarletmorning]

I don't know if I covered everything, but this is all I can come up with now. Maybe I have to expand things later. 8D

The relationship between Viggy and Lyon is complicated, especially from Viggy´s point of view. Well, let me simplify it for an easy introduction: when Viggy looks at Lyon, he feels three things: I love my son, I am disappointed that my son didn't become the son I wished for, I feel guilty for being disappointed.

1. Viggy is a loving person, which is shown by the many people who tell us that he smiles at everyone in a fatherly way. He is not a really cuddly father, though that is more a result of the situation rather than a personality trait. Had Minna survived, which means that his feelings weren't this complicated, he would've been a more "cuddly" father. He loves his son. (Just as he loves his other sons 8D)

2. Viggy had expectations and I think that is normal for a man in a high position who needs an heir. He wants someone who is able to take over; as I see it Viggy cares very much about Grado (and all people in general, which we see at his wish and working for a peaceful world) and wants a strong heir who continues his work. However, he probably noticed early that Lyon is not the heir he want. And he is disappointed. Add to that that he seemingly didn't remarry for some unknown reason (I'm a sap so he didn't remarry out of love for Minna 8D) and Lyon is his only official child. Lyon will inherit the title no matter what (no cousins or other relatives are mentioned and I think it is pretty safe to say he doesn't have one. The twins don't have other relatives as well, for that matter. But that is probably clear.). Viggy probably did everything to teach Lyon how to act and how to be an emperor, but it didn't help. And Viggy is disappointed. He probably fears that everything he has done was for naught, because Lyon doesn't have the necessary backbone for ruling.

3. Viggy feels guilty for point 2, because, uhm, it is pretty dickish. I don't think that it would fit into Viggy´s worldview that a father wishes he had someone else as son or that his son had a different personality. He feels guilty because a part of him doesn't accept Lyon. Doesn't want him as his son. Add to that that Lyon is Minna´s son and Viggy feels guilty that he doesn't love the child that Minna died for. BTW, while the "Lyon killed Minna" issue is not completely gone, Viggy has accepted it and views it as something that had to happen. And Lyon was the compensation the goddess gave him for taking away his wife. (Which makes everything worse, actually, since it turns out that Lyon was not a... good compensation and for a while Viggy felt that the goddess just mocks him. Obviously more guilt feelings followed.)

Point 2 and 3 make it incredibly awkward for Viggy to talk to Lyon. He always fears that Lyon notices his doubts and guilt and gets all stiff around him. He closely watches what he says and which words could expose more of him than he wants to expose. This makes him appear a bit cold and aloof. He tries to be loving, but it doesn't always look like it. He tries to change that, but it doesn't work every time.

Thanks to those issues and Viggy´s inability to really talk with Lyon, he isn't completely able to understand Lyon and they become distant (the little closeness they had grew even smaller). It was not intentional and Viggy really regrets it, but he also doesn't really know how to remedy that. Especially since he is a workaholic and he probably prefers to work rather than think about the issues with his son. Also, the illness weakens him even more and often he doesn't have the strength or patience to deal with his feelings, Lyon´s feelings and the whole situation. He knows he shouldn't do that, but he is actually scared that he'll find out more things that disappoint him and that everything will become even worse. That's why he rather avoid everything. Which doesn't mean that he doesn't care about Lyon; he just has no idea what to do.

Sooooooooooo, now to Lyon.

Lyon loves his dad. I see him as a happy child at first; he notices that his dad is a bit awkward at times, but he accepts that and loves Viggy despite it. And he feels his father´s love often enough to be content. He understands that his dad is awkward. Maybe he sees some of that in himself as well since Lyon isn't outgoing or socially up-to-date as well. He was an awkward child (mostly because I don't think there were any other children around with whom he could socialise).

In the beginning all is well. Then when he is old enough to learn fighting, he notices that he can't do it. And he notices that his father is not content with his failure; Lyon does not know the extent of Viggy´s disappointment, but he sometimes feels that something is not as it should be. (Also, because there are people like Valter and gossiping lords and ladies who openly or secretly belittle him for not being a good heir for Grado) Lyon is frustrated because he wants to make his father proud. He notices that the interactions with his father become more awkward and he believes that it is entirely his fault. For some time he does everything to become the perfect heir, becomes so focused on what he believes his father wants (and grows extremely dependent on his father´s opinion about him) and hurts himself in the progress. That doesn't make Viggy happy (and bam, more guilty feelings) and they finally manage to talk openly for once.

Shortly after that they discover that Lyon is a talented mage and some of the issues get better, i.e. Lyon gets some confidence because he's finally good in something and gets recognition for it, and Viggy because he has something he can be proud of (later, of course, concerns about Lyon choosing dark magic yadda yadda yadda). Lyon´s dependency and Viggy´s constant guilt feelings don't disappear, of course, but they don't openly talk about it. Later when Viggy´s health deteriorate, Lyon´s dependency issues come back like woah and, well, the game starts.

Characterization post may be coherent or not 8D Oh you Grads. I don't really love you (apart from Viggy) but I'm still sorry what I do to you. I make you so angsty, Viggy.

Comments

[raphiael]

I think basically all of this makes a whole lot of sense, especially with the glaring sense of inadequacy Lyon has. I mean, no, he's not physically strong, but he's shown to be extremely intelligent and talented with magic. So having Vigarde foster that sense of "you're not what I wanted", followed by meeting people like Ephraim and Eirika who are absolutely his father's image of perfect royalty, could definitely set up those deep-seated insecurities.

On his own, I don't think Lyon would be unstable enough to really go off the deep end - I think the evil vibes off the Stone started amplifying his angst before his father got really ill (since his death is a total surprise to just about everyone, it probably was a sudden decline), so must of what we see in-game is like an amplified version of all the fears he had to begin with - but instead of resenting his father (a la Zephiel), he becomes desperate for his reassurance and approval, which probably factored into the whole resurrection thing.

[wolfraven80.livejournal.com]

Just a detail here, but I don't think Vigarde's illness can have been all that sudden since Lyon mentions it in the flashbacks, which take place two years before the start of the game. And the emperor is supposed to have died one year later, according to Knoll.

Anyway, I agree that much of that analysis is spot on. It's not a very happy father-son dynamic at all. :/

[raphiael]

At the same time, uit does seem like him dying is a surprise - though a lot of that is mixed in with the whole "BUT WAIT WE TOTALLY JUST SAW HIM" thing. It's hard to say, really, but I can't imagine he was extremely ill for a long time if he was able to just pop back into things without much confusion.
So it's all kind of confusing @__@

[wolfraven80.livejournal.com]

I had to go look up the game script to try to figure out what I knew from the game and I had made up for my own stories. I fond this:

Knoll:

One year ago,t he emperor died of
the illness that had plagued him.
Prince Lyon was devestated. He
fell into an endless despair.
He felt unworthy to take the throne,
unable to rule without his father.

[...]

Prince Lyon told us he intended to use
the Fire Emblem to restore the emperor.
His death had been kept from the public,
but rumors were beginning to fly.
We knew we had to hurry, before the people
learned the truth of the emperor's death.

Sounds like they just said he was bedridden for a while and then, once he was reanimated, they said he was on the mend. I'm trying to imagine Lyon reanimating a year-old corpse.

*shudders*

He was clearly off the deep end and in the clutches of the Demon Lord by that point.

[raphiael]

Huh. Thinking of it that way. . .puts it all in a super creepy light.
I always figured the emperor had been zombified pretty soon afterward, and that he'd been in that state for that whole year (and that Knoll was also imprisoned around that time) - giving time to get back all the creepy generals and push into Renais and others.
But. . . having Lyon pull up the corpse so recently after having it be dead for so long? *shudderrrrrrrrr*

[crimsonmorgan.livejournal.com]

I actually don't think that it took them so long. A few months at the most. It's just that... look at Monica. She was dead for six months and both Seth and Ephraim comment on how horrible she looks. Of course, there is the question; how much effort has the DK put into her reanimation? But are there even different levels for him? Is Monica more like the little guys the shamans summon? Or has the DK then, if it took them so long, used his magic to restore Viggy´s appearance? (Though I can also see the shamans as being able to conserve him in something akin to formaldehyde.) Also, it would've taken Grado some time to organise everything for the surprise attack. Viggy should already be functioning there because he has to give the orders. I don't believe that they would accept Lyon´s orders.

So, tl;dr I don't think Viggy was dead for more than 4 months when he was revived.

[crimsonmorgan.livejournal.com]

I think it was not just his lingering illness that killed him. His health became worse over the time, yes, but since the game talks more about a suddeness I believe that he got another sickness, like the flu or something. And because he was already so weak that second illness killed him. That's how I always thought was the reason for the sudden death.

[crimsonmorgan.livejournal.com]

I don't think Lyon would've done all that without the influence of the stone. As I see it the DK makes it worse at first and then comes around and tells Lyon that everything will be better if he helps him. He kinda makes Lyon dependent on him as well. :/

I think one point why Lyon doesn't turn out like Zephiel is that Zephiel´s father is open about his hate. He gives Zephiel every reason to hate him. But Viggy doesn't want that. He wants to be a good father, but it just doesn't work.

[raphiael]

That's exactly how I see the whole demon king shenanigan. The way I see it, he (it?) got its proverbial claws into Lyon long before the whole possession thing by amplifying his insecurities through the creeping stone-aura or whatever, and that everything from his crippling insecurity to the decision to research the stone further were all caused by that.
Honestly, I don't think at any point in the game you see Lyon for who he really was - even in the flashbacks, he was already affected by the situation.